Discussion:
Noodle Bar Scene - new translation wirh notes by Gary Scott Fine
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Sentinel
2003-09-16 20:00:26 UTC
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I was contacted by Gary Scott Fine who's living in Japan, and who kindly
offered to provide a new and improved translation (with notes) of the dialog
in the noodle bar scene.

The idea is to incorporate this information in the FAQ, eventually. Coming
Real Soon Now...

- NOODLE BAR SCENE -

{Rainy, busy street scene. Deckard reading newspaper while waiting for a
spot to open up at the White Dragon Noodle Bar.}

Blimp: A new life awaits you in the Off-world colonies. The chance to begin
again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure.

Sushi Master: {To a customer} Nani ni shimasho ka. [Japanese: "What would
you like to have?"]

[GSF] This is a very minor point, but if you listen closely, you'll hear
that the Sushi Master is not saying "Nani ni shimasho ka," but "Nan ni
shimasho ka." In this context, nan is a colloquial, informal variation of
nani. Although the existing translation in the dialog is not incorrect, I
think "What'll it be?" comes closer to the tone and spirit of the Sushi
Master's words.

Sushi Master: {To a customer} Nan ni shimasho ka. [Japanese: "What'll it
be?"]

Blimp: A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies. The chance to begin
again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure. Lets go to the
Colonies!

<<OV only>>
Blimp: New climate, recreational facilities ...

Deckard (voiceover): They don't advertise for killers in the newspaper. That
was my profession. Ex-cop, ex-blade runner, ex-killer.

Blimp: ... absolutely free.
<<End OV>>

<<DC only>>
Blimp: This announcement has been brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation. Helping America into the New World.
<<End DC>>

Blimp: {Continues over some of the following dialogue} Use your new friend
as a personal body servant or a tireless field hand - the custom tailored
genetically engineered humanoid replicant designed especially for your
needs. So come on America, lets put our team up there ...

Sushi Master: {To Deckard} Kimashita, kimashita! Irasshai, irasshai!
[Japanese: "Come, come. Welcome, welcome!" ]

[GSF] Kimashita is the past tense of the verb kuru, "to come." If we
conclude that the Sushi Master is in fact saying "Kimashita, kimashita,"
then a more accurate translation than "Come, come" would be "Came, came."
This is a stretch, but one could argue that the Master recognizes Deckard
and, pleased to see him, says, "(You) came, (you) came!" However, the
Master's intonation doesn't really fit with this interpretation, and the
syntax would suggest a closer relationship than is borne out in the scene
that follows.

What the Sushi Master is really saying is not kimashita, but akimashita
(past tense of the verb aku, "to become vacant"). He's telling Deckard that
a seat is now available for him. It's easy to mistake the sound of
akimashita for kimashita in this scene because of the street noise and
because, when the Sushi Master repeats the word, the a sound at the end of
the first utterance liaises with the a at the beginning of the second (it
sounds like "kimashitakimashita"). However, akimashita is a very natural
expression in this situation (much more so than kimashita), and the Sushi
Master says it as he gestures toward the seat that has just been vacated by
the previous customer. He's saying, "The seat's opened up! There's a seat
for you here!"

Sushi Master: {To Deckard} Akimashita, akimashita! Irasshai, irasshai!
[Japanese: "(The seat's) free, (it's) free! Welcome, welcome!"]

{Deckard goes over to Sushi Bar.}

Sushi Master: Sa dozo. [Japanese: "Come, please." (sit down here)]

[GSF] This translation is correct.

{Deckard sits where Sushi Master indicates.}

Sushi Master: Nani ni shimasho ka. [Japanese: "What would you like to
have?"]

[GSF] As above, this should be "Nan ni shimasho ka."

Sushi Master: Nan ni shimasho ka. [Japanese: "What'll it be?"]

Deckard: {Points} Give me four.

Sushi Master: Futatsu de jubun desu yo. [Japanese: "Two is enough!"]

[GSF] This translation is correct.

Deckard: No. Four. Two, two, four.

Sushi Master: Futatsu de jubun desu yo. [Japanese: "Two is enough!"]

[GSF] Again, this is correct.

Deckard: {Resignedly} And noodles.

Sushi Master: Wakatte kudasai yo. [Japanese: "Please understand!" (Actually
implying sarcastically, "Can't you understand?") He knows Deckard by name,
so this is probably a familiar jibing between the two.]

[GSF] This seems correct (though "sarcastic" may be a bit too strong a term
for the Sushi Master's words).

Also, as you point out, the Sushi Master is asking Deckard to understand
(with the implication of "Can't you understand?"), but it seems unclear
whether he wants Deckard specifically to understand that "two are plenty" or
whether he's slightly exasperated by Deckard's inability to speak Japanese
in general.

Just to cover the bases, I might also note the slight chance that the Sushi
Master is not saying "Wakatte kudasai yo," but "Makashite kudasai yo" (from
the verb makasu, "to entrust to"). In other words, rather than saying
"Please understand!," he might be saying "Leave it to me!" - insinuating
that as a professional, he should know better than the customer what should
be ordered. His voice is squeaky, there's plenty of street noise, and he
speaks the line off-screen (making it impossible to read his lips), so it's
hard to be certain. The possibility is remote, but I thought I'd mention
it. That said, to me the line does sound more like "Wakatte kudasai yo."

<<OV only>>
Deckard (voiceover): Sushi, that's what my ex-wife called me. Cold fish.
<<End OV>>

Policeman: Hey, idi-wa. [Korean: "Hey, come here." {Thanks to Mark Taylor
for confirmation.}]

Gaff: Monsieur, azonnal kövessen engem bitte. [French-Hungarian-German:
"Sir, follow me immediately please!" (Thanks to eMU for translating the
Hungarian part:- "azonnal" - means immediately; "kövessen" - means follow
imperative; "engem" - means me. And of course "Monsieur" is French for Sir
and "bitte" is German for please.)]

{Deckard gestures to Sushi Master to translate. (The script had Deckard not
understanding the original Japanese. The subsequent voiceover said of course
he actually understood Cityspeak. So whether he really understands or not is
pretty much your choice!)}

Sushi Master: He say you under arrest, Mr. Deckard.

Deckard: You got the wrong guy, pal.

Gaff: Lófaszt, nehogy már. Te vagy a Blade ... Blade Runner. [Hungarian:
"Horsedick, no way! You are the Blade ... Blade Runner." (Thanks to Adam H.
and eMU for confirming this Hungarian.)]

Sushi Master: He say you 'Brade Runner'.

Deckard: Tell him I'm eating.

Gaff: Captain Bryant toka. Me ni omae yo. [Japanese: "Captain Bryant wants
to see your mug in front of his immediately!" (This is a loose translation.
"Me ni omae yo" is a sort of pun. "Me ni mae" means to meet someone. "omae"
is the very informal use of "you" - in Japanese, this is significant. "yo" -
Exclamation - Japanese doesn't use the '!' punctuation. Thanks to Michael J.
Simon for sorting out this line. I think "toka" in this sense marks
information from someone else. - Netrunner)]

[GSF] This is the most difficult of the "Japanese" lines in this scene to
translate, because while the others are spoken by the actor playing the
Sushi Master (a native speaker of the language), this line is delivered by
Edward James Olmos, who presumably does not actually speak Japanese. There
is consequently not only the vagueness of Cityspeak with which to contend,
but also the chance that Olmos intentionally or inadvertently garbled the
line. In other words, this line may ultimately be untranslatable.

To start with, the line as transcribed here, "Captain Bryant toka. Me ni
omae yo," makes no sense in standard Japanese. Although parts of the gloss
are correct (for example, "omae" being an informal expression for "you," and
"yo" being verbally analogous to an exclamation point), the use of "toka"
here is curious and, more importantly, "me ni mae" does not mean "to meet
someone." Of course, it's not possible to say definitively that the line is
"wrong": we're dealing with Cityspeak, a hypothetical and largely arbitrary
future language, so virtually any expression can be rationalized as
"correct." As presented in the FAQ, the line appears to be an accurate
transcription of the words spoken by Gaff, reflecting the sounds as uttered
by Olmos. But if we use accepted, contemporary Japanese as a standard, then
we must consider the possibility that this line has been incorrectly
identified as Japanese.

Let's analyze the line as it appears in the FAQ.

The expression toka means "such as" and is used when giving examples, as in,
SF eiga ga daisuki. Bureedo ranaa toka ("I love science fiction movies.
Like Blade Runner"). If Gaff is indeed saying "Captain Bryant toka," this
would translate as "Captain Bryant and so forth," an incomplete and vague
utterance. Incomplete and vague utterances are more the rule than the
exception in Japanese, so it's arguable that Gaff is vaguely alluding to
Bryant as a way of motivating Deckard to come with him. Still, in the
context of the conversation, this Japanese is awkward and atypical (a
non-sequitur literally equivalent to "Captain Bryant, et cetera"), and the
reading seems unlikely.

[Sidebar: To and ka are also separate expressions that are sometimes
combined, where to is a quotation marker and ka a question marker, as in Nan
to ka naru deshoo ("Something will work out," a set expression in which
nan - literally, "what" - is followed by the quotation marker and the
question marker, giving it the vague meaning of "something"). Netrunner
suggests that "toka" may mark information from someone else. This would
seem to be an inference drawn from the quotation marker to, as in, Kare wa
repurikanto da to iimashita, "He said he's a replicant," where to separates
the quoted utterance "He's a replicant" (Kare wa repurikanto da) from the
verb "said" (iimashita). As used in the Noodle Shop scene, however, to is
not a quotation marker and "Captain Bryant toka" does not indicate
information from someone else - assuming, of course, that the line is
Japanese.]

I would suggest at this point that Gaff is not saying "Captain Bryant toka,"
but rather "Captain Bryant ga...." Keep in mind that Japanese is a syllabic
language and that, because of this, foreign words and names that should
properly end with a consonant tend instead to be pronounced with a vowel
sound at the end. The Japanese syllables making up the name "Bryant" are
bu-ra-i-a-n-to, or, alternatively, bu-ra-ya-n-to. In either case, the name
ends with the syllable to. I believe that Gaff is not saying "Bryant toka,"
but rather "Burayanto ga" (except he speaks in a slightly disjointed way and
also pronounces the "ga" with a bit too hard a sound, so that it sounds
rather like "ka").

Ga is a subject marker in Japanese. In this case, it marks Bryant as the
subject of the sentence that follows. Assuming Bryant is the subject of the
sentence, what is Gaff telling Deckard about him?

"Me ni omae yo" is problematic. Neither the expression "me ni omae" nor its
variant in the gloss, "me ni mae," exist in standard Japanese. The gloss
indicates that me ni mae means "to meet someone," but this is not correct.
It may be that the translator was extrapolating from the phrase me ni kakaru
(a polite expression for "to meet someone"), but Gaff is clearly not saying
"kakaru" and "me ni mae" is nonsensical in Japanese. Although "Captain
Bryant wants to meet you" is a temptingly appropriate translation given the
context, this is not actually supported by the words here, assuming they are
Japanese.

Me means "eye" and mae means "before" or "in front of." The article ni is a
direction marker that can mean "to," "in the direction of," or "at." There'
s another expression, me no mae, which means "before one's eyes" or "right
in front of one." (Note that this expression does not use ni but rather the
article no, a possessive marker analogous to an apostrophe "s.") If we
assume that Olmos's pronunciation was a little off and that Gaff is saying
"Me no mae," then we have the expression "Captain Burayanto ga me no mae
yo." This would literally mean "Captain Bryant is right in front of you!"
One could argue that this is a way of saying "Captain Bryant wants to see
you" or "You can't get out of seeing Captain Bryant," but this is really a
stretch, as no one would use the expression in Japanese this way.

I've wracked my brain over this line and am disappointed to say that I
cannot definitively translate it. I showed the scene to my Japanese wife
and she said she doesn't think Gaff's line is Japanese. We spent a fair
amount of time trying to imagine what the line could be if we assumed the
most heinous possible mispronunciation of Japanese. For example, we
speculated that what sounds like "me ni omae yo" might actually be a
mispronunciation of "omae ni aitai te yo" ("said he wants to see you," where
"omae" is a coarse form of "you" -- sometimes pronounced "ome" -- and the
"te" is a variant of the quotation marker "to"). But I have a hard time
believing anyone could mispronounce the words so completely as to transform
the "aitai" to "omae" and to drop out the "te" entirely, especially as
conscientious an actor as Edward James Olmos. Ultimately, I'm at a loss to
explain this line as "Japanese" without making some pretty big leaps.

I have thus come to the following, I hope not altogether useless,
conclusions:

(1) If the line is Japanese, it has been rendered largely incomprehensible
either by the writer (deliberately changing elements of Japanese into
futuristic Cityspeak?) or by the actor (inadvertently mispronouncing and/or
dropping some of the words?);

(2) The line may be a mixture of Japanese and some other language;

(3) Though in some respects homophonous with Japanese, the line may in fact
not contain any Japanese at all.

I wish I could have come up with more on what the line is, but I hope I have
at least contributed to understanding what the line isn't.

Have you had it analyzed by speakers of other east Asian languages?

Deckard: Bryant, huh?

Gaff: Hai! [Japanese: "Yes!"]

[GSF] This is correct.

{Deckard and Gaff leave in spinner.}

[GSF] I might note in closing that, in the OV voiceover, Deckard refers to
sushi as "cold fish." Of course, "sushi" isn't "cold fish" at all, but
rather small balls of vinegar-flavored, room-temperature rice served with a
garnish of raw seafood (or vegetables, boiled shrimp, egg or even - in some
its modern Westernized variants - meat, fruit, or mayonnaise). What Deckard
's wife should have called him was "sashimi." One wonders whether the old
guy in this scene really should be called "Sushi Master." Also, it's quite
odd for sushi and noodles to be served together. I guess this must be
another nightmarish development of the future.
gnomus
2003-09-17 18:28:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sentinel
What
Deckard
Post by Sentinel
's wife should have called him was "sashimi." One wonders whether the old
guy in this scene really should be called "Sushi Master." Also, it's
quite
Post by Sentinel
odd for sushi and noodles to be served together. I guess this must be
another nightmarish development of the future.
<<< Just checking - did anyone actually see this post, let alone read it?
Saw it, read about half.

Gnomus
DJohn37050
2003-09-17 22:17:37 UTC
Permalink
read it all, it was great analysis
Don Johnson
David Spiro
2003-09-17 22:18:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sentinel
<<< Just checking - did anyone actually see this post, let alone read it?
This is the first time I am reading it. Very interesting.
Wellthtsgud
2003-09-18 06:16:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sentinel
<<< Just checking - did anyone actually see this post, let alone read it?
I saw it, its alot to digest and very interesting. Probably BRFAQ material as
well.

~RD~
Sentinel
2003-09-18 16:21:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wellthtsgud
Post by Sentinel
<<< Just checking - did anyone actually see this post, let alone read it?
I saw it, its alot to digest and very interesting. Probably BRFAQ material as
well.
That's the idea. In fact it was sent to me for that purpose, but Wombie
suggested I post it on the ng for all you fine people to study... :)
Garglebreath
2003-09-18 23:51:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sentinel
I was contacted by Gary Scott Fine who's living in Japan, and who kindly
offered to provide a new and improved translation (with notes) of the dialog
in the noodle bar scene.
...
Excellent post! And amazingly fortuitous for me. I just signed on this
evening to check if anyone had translated some of the foreign languages in BR.
I am also curious if anyone has translated that Arabic-like pop song from
Taffey Lewis's bar. Also, the weird song we keep hearing a female vocalist
singing whenever Deckard is getting close to finding Zhora. I figure, it's
probably not meant to be intelligible lyrics but what the heck I'd still like
to know!

-gb
Netrunner
2003-09-19 09:57:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Garglebreath
Post by Sentinel
I was contacted by Gary Scott Fine who's living in Japan, and who kindly
offered to provide a new and improved translation (with notes) of the dialog
in the noodle bar scene.
...
Excellent post! And amazingly fortuitous for me. I just signed on this
evening to check if anyone had translated some of the foreign languages in BR.
I am also curious if anyone has translated that Arabic-like pop song from
Taffey Lewis's bar. Also, the weird song we keep hearing a female vocalist
singing whenever Deckard is getting close to finding Zhora. I figure, it's
probably not meant to be intelligible lyrics but what the heck I'd still like
to know!
Gary has indeed done an excellent analysis and I'll be updating the
relevant part of the FAQ on site RSN. You did check the site for the
part that was being enhanced didn't you -
http://www.brmovie.com/FAQs/BR_FAQ_Language.htm

The Arabic-like pop song has more emphasis on the "like" than the
"Arabic" - it has been transcribed by somebody out there, but has no
translation as it is not real words. The other - ummm... I'll get
back to you on that.

Netrunner
--
The newsgroup website is www.BRmovie.com
Home of the Blade Runner FAQ, Encyclopedia,
Character Profiles, Fan Fiction, News,
Related books/movies and much more!
----------------------------------------------
POD {Ò¿Ó}
2003-09-19 18:22:18 UTC
Permalink
This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.
Sentinel
2003-09-19 17:50:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Garglebreath
Post by Sentinel
I was contacted by Gary Scott Fine who's living in Japan, and who kindly
offered to provide a new and improved translation (with notes) of the dialog
in the noodle bar scene.
...
Excellent post! And amazingly fortuitous for me. I just signed on this
evening to check if anyone had translated some of the foreign languages in BR.
I am also curious if anyone has translated that Arabic-like pop song from
Taffey Lewis's bar.
If it is a Vangelis composition (which is likely) it's possible that the
lyrics are made-up, fake if you will...
Post by Garglebreath
Also, the weird song we keep hearing a female vocalist
singing whenever Deckard is getting close to finding Zhora. I figure, it's
probably not meant to be intelligible lyrics but what the heck I'd still like
to know!
Are you refering to Demis Roussos? He's not female (though I can understand
the confusion) but anyway, from what I have read those lyrics are also fake,
although some actual Arabic words *may* have been used as well.

The song is called "Damask Rose", BTW, and can be found on the official 1994
sound track album:
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=MISS70305141714&sql=A2z0qoatauijm
Al Lewis
2003-09-24 05:00:24 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:46:52 +0200, "Sentinel"
Post by Sentinel
<<< Just checking - did anyone actually see this post, let alone read it?
just saw it now - read about 80% of it. Very good analysis, and I'm
sure I'd appreciate it more if I weren't so tired.

Right now, all I'm thinking is, yeah, that's pretty much what I gathered
without knowing what the hell that guy was saying......sorry, it's a
detail, and examining every detail is part of the fascination I have
with BR, but not right now.

Take my advice, if you ever take Friday off to go to a 3 day music
festival, take Monday off as well. I flew out before 7 AM Monday
morning, and was at work by 8:30 (2-hour time difference, which meant my
flight only took 20 minutes by the local clock.).
NexxuSix
2004-01-10 03:21:55 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the lesson in Japanese, Spanish, German, what have you... ;-)

I think I've learned more about the scene in this posting than all my
accumulated time of watching the DVD...

-NexxuSix
Post by Sentinel
I was contacted by Gary Scott Fine who's living in Japan, and who kindly
offered to provide a new and improved translation (with notes) of the dialog
in the noodle bar scene.
Lukas Mariman
2004-01-10 11:07:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by NexxuSix
Thanks for the lesson in Japanese, Spanish, German, what have you... ;-)
I think I've learned more about the scene in this posting than all my
accumulated time of watching the DVD...
We aim to please. :-)

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